The Art of the Deal: Nathan Payne’s Path to Painless Flipping 

In this episode of the REsimpli podcast, host Sharad Mehta welcomes Nathan Payne, a seasoned real estate professional from Salt Lake City, Utah. Nathan shares his journey from having no real estate knowledge to mastering the art of wholesaling and creating a successful business model based on reverse wholesaling. Despite not always finding buyers first, Nathan has built strong relationships with buyers and provides them with deals, keeping his team small and overhead low for maximum profit retention.

Nathan’s real estate venture began in May 2018, starting with door-to-door sales before transitioning into real estate with a college roommate. Initially juggling door-to-door sales and real estate, Nathan eventually focused solely on real estate, embracing the challenges and learning from experiences such as his first problematic deal.

Transitioning from traditional wholesaling, Nathan discusses his current approach, “painless flipping,” which involves working closely with buyers to ensure deals are viable before proceeding. This method helps avoid the emotional and financial toll of canceling contracts and ensures deals are beneficial for all parties involved.

Nathan also offers advice for newbies in the real estate industry, emphasizing the importance of targeted lead generation and building relationships with a small, reliable group of buyers rather than amassing a large, impersonal list. He shares practical strategies for finding deals and getting paid, even in competitive markets.

The conversation also touches on personal interests, with Nathan revealing his passion for Brazilian jiu-jitsu and reading, particularly works by Theodore Dostoevsky and books on self-improvement and spiritual growth.

For those looking to connect with Nathan or learn more about his strategies, he suggests joining his Facebook group “Painless Flipping” or visiting the website painlessflipping.com. Nathan’s approach to real estate investment offers valuable insights for both novice and +

experienced investors seeking to optimize their deal flow and build sustainable, profitable businesses.

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Transcript: 

Sharad Mehta  0:06 

Hey guys, my name is Sharad. I’m the host of the REsimpli podcast. And I’m super duper excited to have Nathan Payne on this podcast. He is an amazing person with wealth of knowledge. So I can’t wait to talk real estate with him. Nathan, how are you doing?

Nathan Payne  0:23 

I feel great feeling Excellent. Thanks for having me on. Man, you

Sharad Mehta  0:26 

Always bring such great energy. I’m so excited you always. Amen. Before we get started, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you joining in from? What do you do? And how did you get into real estate?

Nathan Payne 0:37 

Yeah, so I’m joining him from Salt Lake City, Utah. I’ve been in real estate for several years now. And you know, I’ve gone through it all I’ve gone through having big teams, small teams. Right now. I’m running a model, a wholesale model. That’s you can say it’s reverse wholesaling. I don’t say it’s like, specifically reverse wholesaling, because we don’t always find the buyer first. But we have relationships with buyers and we bring them deals. That’s how I work right now. And it’s very small team low overhead. So when I make money on a deal, I get to keep the majority of money, which is great. So that’s what I

Sharad Mehta  1:05 

Do. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about how did you get started in real estate? How long? Have you been real estate investor?

Nathan Payne 1:11 

Yeah, it’s a great question. 2018 is when I started may 2018. So what is that five, six years, pretty much, almost six years, almost six years. So I’ve been doing it for about five, six years, started with zero knowledge absolutely knew nothing about real estate. I didn’t even know what wholesaling was I just knew you could make money in real estate. Like most people, they’re like, oh, let’s do real estate. And then they kind of find their niche, right, they find out what they like or what they’re good at. So I came from a door to door background selling door to door, I’d knock on people’s doors and sell them DISH Network, satellite TV, I’d knock on the door and say, Hey, TV bills are really high in the area. A lot of people been complaining. I’m here to see if I can save you some money. Pretty much. That was the pitch. And they’d say get out of here. Or they’d say, okay, yeah, my bills really high. So I started on that. That’s how I kind of got my sales background. And after doing that, through college, I graduated, met my wife. And I was like, Man, I don’t want to be knocking doors the rest of my life. I don’t be an old man knocking on people’s doors. What can I do? And also, you had to travel every summer to a new area. And I was like, I don’t want to travel anymore. So it’s like, what can I do to make money? My roommate in college, he did real estate and his dad was a wholesaler in Missouri. So I was like, huh, real estate’s good. So I reached out to him, I said, Hey, are you doing real estate? What are you doing? And he had moved to Utah recently, where I’d moved after we both got married. And he’s like, No, I’m doing tech sales. I’m not doing real estate. But I want to, I was like, Well, how about you get rid of stop your job Come, let’s go start a business together. Doing real estate right at the time, didn’t even know what wholesaling was really, but just hey, let’s just do real estate. And he was like, okay, so he quit his job. And we, we did a little bit of door to door together, we tried to like build a team and separated like, you know, we tried to run the door door business and the wholesaling business, not effectively, it was very difficult to do both. So eventually, we just stopped, like, Hey, we gotta get rid of this door to door thing, we got to go all in on real estate. So then that’s when we went all in. And that’s how I started.

Sharad Mehta  3:05 

So from the time, like in May 2018, you decided, like, how long did it take you to get your first deal? And what was that? Like?

Nathan Payne 3:15 

First deal, I’m sure you know all about people’s first deals. It was a terrible experience. It was I didn’t I didn’t know what I was doing. So I messed everything up. So it took me about four or five months from so when I say I started real estate in May, I kind of took me like two months of like thinking about it planning, making like maybe a couple of calls a day thinking I was doing it. And then after doing it for two months and kind of going between the door to door and that I was like, Okay, I gotta go all in. So once I went all in, it took me three months to get my first deal. And that just we got the Mojo dialer. And we were just hammering, calling expired listings, Notice of Defaults. We were just didn’t know what was going to happen. Every buddy we called seemed like, like, they didn’t want to talk to us. But we eventually found somebody that answered, and he was like, yeah, what’s your offer? Right, one of those and you’re like, wow, somebody wants an offer? And do you want me to go into the story of our first deal? It’s pretty great. Yeah,

Sharad Mehta  4:16 

Yeah, why not? Okay,

Nathan Payne 4:18 

So we’re me and my buddy. We’re cold calling. And it was around like, 1pm. Right? It’s 1pm. And you could say, you know, afternoon, we call it he calls this guy named Donald. And this guy answers the phone. And he’s, he seems half asleep, right or met him probably was asleep. And he Cory after he gets on the phone, he’s like, Hey, I just talked to a guy. He said he’s interested. But I don’t know. It may sound like you’re sleeping. And we’re just kind of interesting. It was like middle of the day. We didn’t know what’s going on. But he’s like He said we could come over. So we go over to his house like that day or might have been a couple days after we go to his house, middle of the day, the guy sleeping in. So we’re like, Oh man, this guy must be pretty tired or depressed or something’s going on. But He lets us in. And he’s just like, yeah, guys thinking about selling I lost my job haven’t been working for a long time. And yeah, just think about selling and we didn’t know what to do. We’re just like, well, you want to sell the house and this appointment. It took like three or four times going to his house just to even like approach a good like negotiation. We were just hanging out half the time. We were just like, let’s go see Donald, we got nothing else to do. Yeah, it was like, sometimes we would call them and we knew he was sleeping. So we would just go to his house and knock on the door and be like, Donald, we’re here.

Sharad Mehta  5:35 

What’s up? Man break because there’s some lunch for you. Yeah,

Nathan Payne 5:39 

We’re here so much. And we go in, he’d have his ex Xbox on. So the reason why we found him is because he was an expired listing that didn’t sell his house because he didn’t get the offer he wanted. And he was in pre foreclosure, because he wasn’t making his payments, he lost a job. So he was like, maybe 20 30,000 behind on his payment. You know, we found that out as we were hanging out with them. And eventually, again, we didn’t really know how to run comps, we were just like, we think one ad is low enough. So we made an offer, we can buy your house one ad. He’s like, okay, all right. So that was the traditional way of like how I was doing wholesaling, right? Like you would just you make an offer that you thought was good. And then you would go find a buyer, right, which can present a lot of problems. Because yeah, a lot of time, you don’t have a low enough. Can you make money on that deal? Yeah, we ended up making money, but it was after a lot of pain. So

Sharad Mehta  6:30 

How much money did you make led us? You know, I made

Nathan Payne 6:33 

5000. And I’ll just quickly sum it up. Basically, what ended up happening is, we didn’t get it low enough. So we had to go back to him. And after trying to show the house like to several investors, and we’re like, Hey, I’m sorry, man, we get we need a lower, can you take $5,000 lower than what we agreed? And he was like, Sure, whatever, you know, I’m just trying to give you could

Sharad Mehta  6:55 

Have just offered him like 121 30. And he will be like, sure, you know?

Nathan Payne  7:01 

Yeah, we didn’t know. So

Sharad Mehta  7:04 

Money. Yeah, we still made money, made money going

Nathan Payne 7:06 

Back, obviously, I would have handled it a lot differently. But we’re just like, yeah, and he was he was from Croatia. And he wanted to just get back to Europe. And he was like, dude, just let’s get this done. So yeah, that was my first though.

Sharad Mehta  7:18 

Cool, man. So that’s your traditional wholesaling to what you’re doing now is kind of different, right? So what led you from what you were doing, or what you’re doing now, just like, you know, lay the groundwork on that, you

Nathan Payne 7:32 

Know, man, it was just a lot of pain and a lot experience having to cancel a lot of contracts, right. Um, that was what kind of led me to what I call painless flipping, some people call it reverse wholesaling, it’s a little different. But what was happening through my journey of like the last five, six years, I would talk to sellers that were motivated, and I would make offers that I thought made sense, right? I was like, Okay, this is low enough in the numbers check out, and we would get under contract, and then we would try and find a buyer, we’d use all the different, you know, software’s I don’t want to throw anybody under the bus, but we would use the software’s and we try to find buyers, and people would be a lot lower than we were no one we wouldn’t get any interest. And this really kicked our butt. When we went nationwide, we just turned on the Pay Per Click, we turned on Pay Per Click nationwide PPC, and all these leads started flooding in and we’re like, we’re gonna be millionaires, we’re gonna freaking crush it. This is be great. And what ended up happening is we got a lot of contracts to later find out that there’s really no flippers in that area of like Peoria, Illinois, that’s actually a decent place. But just for example, there’s just a lot of leads we got that just had no flippers, no action, but we didn’t know that we were new. So then I was like, Look, I’m tired of locking up stuff, having to cancel not getting alone enough, having to tell the seller getting my team excited. And then we cancel the contract. Everyone’s emotionally distraught. They’re like I said, we’re gonna make money. So I said, What’s the best way to do this? And then I was like, well, let’s just go where we know there’s flippers, let’s just know whether there’s a lot of activity where we have relationships with buyers. And when we’re talking when we’re talking to that seller, that has that that price that he wants, it’s a little iffy, instead of me telling that seller Yes, sir, I can do that. And then going to find a buyer. Now I just say, Hey, let me just check. Let me see if my buyers, you know, that I work with if we can, we can get that done. And I just call a couple of my buyers and I say, Hey, where are you going to be on this one, so I don’t lock it up and waste everybody’s time. They kind of they either walk it, they just tell me their price. And then I obviously get it lower if it makes sense. And then I make my money and it’s very fast. I don’t have to do paperwork half the time and I just get the you know, get it done that way. Again, this is not a strategy that I say to do all the time. Because if I’m talking to a seller that’s like, hey, I’ll take 50% of what it’s worth, or I’ll you know my house worth 400 I’ll take 200 And you you’re like are you sure and it works out. You just put that under contract. You don’t need to ask your buyers what they would pay. You already know it’s a great deal. But there is too many that we run into that are like, sort of good deals, and you just don’t want to let that go. You want to make money. So that’s what I teach. And that’s what I do. So you’re

Sharad Mehta  10:10 

Primarily working for buyer. So if I understand correctly, you’re starting with the end buyer in mind, looking at, hey, these are the core group of buyers that I have, you know, 1015 buyers that are buying consistently in my market, I’m gonna go to them and ask them, Hey, what is it that you need? And then you’re just gonna go out and find those properties? Yeah, and

Nathan Payne 10:29 

Look, look in those areas, because you know, those are hot areas. Now, again, if you find a seller that’s just willing to give you a great deal, you don’t really need to call them and say, Hey, you just get it. But if it’s tight, you could say, Hey, man, I’m in negotiations, where would you be just so I don’t, I can make sure this is a deal if I get it. And that’s, that’s what I’m talking about. Like, you can leverage the experience. And this works really well for new investors, because new investors, they’re going to run into a lot of those situations, they’re like, I don’t know if this is a good deal. And they don’t want to, like go out and say they can buy something if they don’t know. So that’s why I teach it. That’s why I do it.

Sharad Mehta  11:03 

So in the case, I’m curious, if you get a property under contract directly with the seller, let’s say 50% of the market value, are you then assigning that contract to the buyer, or just saying, Hey, I like this up for let’s say, 100,000? To $200,000? House, you pay me 10,000? Is?

Nathan Payne 11:19 

If it’s a great, great deal, then you got to look at different extra strategies, you got to say, Okay, how much am I gonna make? If I flip this myself? How much am I gonna make if I just put this on the MLS? Like wholesale? It Right? I look at all these strategies, right? Like, I look at all the extra strategies I don’t, I don’t really just like get a house that’s really discounted, and just say, hey, just give me 10, right, because I gotta make as much as I can, in order to keep my business and my people eating, I’m referring to the strategy of like, hey, this could be a deal, this couldn’t be a deal instead, just walking away. Because a lot of times when you walk away, that was a 30k deal. That was a 20k deal, or whatever you just didn’t know. So does that make sense? It’s just really all depends on the deal. So

Sharad Mehta  12:00 

For a newbie who’s starting out and is tight on budget, you know, like a lot of newbies are, what would you what would you tell them is the best way to get started, you know, tight on budget, I don’t have like, you know, 1000s of dollars to spend on marketing? Great

Nathan Payne 12:14 

Question. There’s two free lead gen sources out there that I use every day, you got the MLS, right, you have agents that list properties, distressed sellers hit the MLS all the time, I’ve been a distressed seller on the MLS, I’ve been having problems. I’m like, I just want to sell this thing. Someone just made me dang offer. So they’re all there’s distressed properties on MLS, and it’s free. And then another one is wholesalers, when you reach out to a wholesaler, and you say, Hey, I see that deal that you got, I have someone that might be interested in that property is okay, if I bring my buyer and making an offer, and I can add my fee on top or we can split the wholesale fee 99.9%. Wholesalers are like, Yeah, I’m trying to sell this, I don’t care how much you make, as long as I make money. So I start out and I tell new newbies, get your core group of buyers start with three to five, look at deals that are already for sale, instead of having to go find them go like you know, negotiate it, if they’re already there. MLS and wholesalers deals are there like I need to sell, bring your buyers to those, get their offers, and just add your fee on top or whatever you your negotiation is, that’s how you can get a deal. Sometimes within an hour, sometimes within seven days, I’m not going to set the expectation say hey, if you do it today, you’re gonna get a deal because not everybody can do that. But I’ve gone to new areas, new markets, and within two, two hours of actually working, I’ve been able to give it to a buyer that I know. And you have the EMD and all that sent out because they just I know who to talk to. So this

Sharad Mehta  13:39  

Would be incredible for a newbie who doesn’t have any, you know, as you say, has very little money to spend on this. But how would you go about like, what questions would your end buyer have if you present them and mlsu is just basically adding the value by negotiating?

Nathan Payne 13:54 

Yeah, you’re exactly. So let’s let’s do an example. If there’s a $200,000 house on the MLS, you’re not gonna go to the your buyer and say, Hey, here’s a $200,000 house, I think it’s a good deal for you. And they haven’t called the agent, they haven’t provided any value for me that as a buyer, I’d be like, Well, what value did you pray you just you just show me a listing. What I’m telling people to do is call that agent that has the property at 200,000 Say, Hey, I know a couple buyers. I’m not buying but I know a couple that are looking in this area, is the price negotiable is can I bring a buyer to this, what’s the lowest the seller would accept? I know you’re not a lot of agents won’t say anything like oh, just make your offer. But you can say hey, you know, if you do talk to agent and they’re like, You know what, we’ve had a lot of offers, and you know, we really just trying to move this thing we need to at least at 170 So then, you know you could go to your buyer. And with that information, you could say hey, look, this thing’s listed at 200 I actually got know that they’re willing to accept 170 That’s not what my fee included, but I think it’s some it meets all the criteria we talked about. Is this something you’d be interested in, just give me 5k Give me 10 Whatever just for bringing it to you if it makes sense, then the buyers like oh, yeah, this I didn’t know that this opportunity was that low because I’m not making calls the MLS that that buyers not. So that’s the value you would provide is bringing an opportunity and letting them decide if it’s a good fit for them. Yeah, I

Sharad Mehta  15:15 

Think I like in my area, if an investor brought me a deal, even if listed on MLS that I’m not, I haven’t looked at or I haven’t been able to negotiate, and this person brings in a $200,000 house that I can buy for 170 and put money in it, make money on top of it like I should, I’ll pay you like 5000, because I would have never gotten this deal.

Nathan Payne 15:36 

Exactly. And that’s that’s where the power is of the new new investor is, you know, as you as you level up as an entrepreneur, an investor, like you delegate a lot of that stuff like calling and negotiating you to other people right to vas, and maybe your team so you don’t see every opportunity that’s out there. And you’re only going to know about what’s out there if you make the call. Because a lot of people and I do this to like I do this a lot we would just send out offers, we would just send out blind offers Letter of Intent to everybody and agents like they don’t respond to those those those rarely work, you really have to get on the phone. And that’s like where the power is. So if you’re new, get on the phone, start finding out what deals are they’re bringing to people who have money that buy, you’ll get a deal.

Sharad Mehta  16:17 

You know, a lot of investors talk about building a big buyers list, right? They boast about having 1000s and 1000s of people on their buyers list. That really important. Well,

Nathan Payne 16:27 

I have a lot of experience that I’d say no, not at all. So when I went nationwide, like I told you to pay per click, I was struggling to sell my deal. So I reached out to someone who was mentoring me at the time. And I said, bro, how are you selling all your deals? I’m all my deals are like I have to cancel and he’s like, I have a great buyer’s list. So I was like, Okay, great. Can I buy it because I got like, 2030 houses under contract, if I can sell any of them. It’s worth it. He’s like, I don’t sell it was like, Dude, please, please sell me your buyers list. He’s like, okay, 25,000. And for me, that’s a lot of money, right? But I was like, Well, if I can sell these deals, I’ll make my money back. So I bought it. And I started using it. At 1.3 million people on the buyers list. Did it work? Not really a lot of fake emails, a lot of just a lot of crap, right? So then I go back to him like, hey, you know what happened? Like you said, this thing was the Holy Grail. He’s like, Nah, man, I filtered through that list. It cost me a lot of money, but I filtered and I work with like 400 buyers out of all those. That’s like my rolodex, I was like, dude, sell me that I don’t want your giant list. I want the who are the people. And he’s like, Nah, man, that took me a lot of time. So whatever it all I’m saying is, you can get as many emails as many buyers you want, you don’t have the relationship with those people, they might not open up your email, they don’t know who you are my go to spam. So if you get a giant buyer’s list, it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter. That is

Sharad Mehta  17:53 

That is so true. If you start looking at in your area, the people that are actively buying property, that’s the rule of 8020. Or even I would say like 9010, like 10% of people are buying 90% of the deals. If you just build your relationship with those 10% of the people in your market, you don’t need any other buyers, you don’t you just go to them. And you have one on one relationship. You can call them, you can text them, they will you know, you don’t have to use this mass email, mass texting, I used to be on bunch of these mass email, mass texting, you know, from a disposition platform. I unsubscribe every single like you just start getting random emails. And then I’m like, hey, just send me something that I want. Don’t send me something you have sent me something that I actually need. I think that’s where the power of quality over quantity is so so important, especially in this day and age, man, I’m sure Nathan, you have no doubt that this is like if you have like attention span of this much. Right? You literally have like two seconds to get someone’s attention. And if you’re going to send an email that like on first glance based, you’re just unsubscribe, your unsubscribe at that point. Yeah, agreed. What how big is your buyer? I mean, it’s interesting that you mentioned sort of off the 1.3 million, how many he fell down to 400. He said like 400 fraction of a percent. I think about that’s like, of 1.3 million 10% 130,000. And then 1% is 13. So it’s not even it’s 8.2% or something off the entire buyers list. Imagine that. I

Nathan Payne 19:27 

Wish I would have known that too. But you know, no, hey, you learn a lot of things. Yeah, exactly. But it’s crazy. Exactly. You’re saying quality over quantity. And that’s the problem these days is people just think the more they put out, the better they’ll do it. I guess you could say work sometimes for like social media and stuff, even though I’m a little sceptical on that as well. But it just doesn’t work that well. And people are unsubscribing buyers don’t look at emails. Right now. I probably have about just today like 17 email deals, but I gotta I gotta look through them. I gotta even I gotta Run comps to make sure if they’re even legit. So you gotta give people the save people time you save people time, they’ll pay you. Exactly.

Sharad Mehta  20:07 

And eventually, like the cemetery emails that you have ourselves one guy that is working directly with you one on one he sent you your text, you’re gonna give your more time to that one deal versus the 17 deals together. So that’s, that’s the power of like networking, and building relationships with your buyers, like people get so hung up on Oh, I have like, you know, 100,000 people on my bias like, dude, how many people are actually buying all those 100,000? You know, how

Nathan Payne  20:30 

Many people even opening your emails? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Sharad Mehta  20:33 

Like, is there any point if the emails are going to their junk, they don’t even opening? They’re unsubscribing. You I would rather have like 10 people that are buying multiple deals from me every single month, you know?

Nathan Payne 20:43 

Exactly. And that’s kind of that’s what I preach. And that’s what I teach. It’s like, Look, guys, like, you’re all even with lists, right? Like, when I first started, I thought I used to be the text email call call as many people as possible. And I would not really LIS stack, I would just do absentee owners. Now it’s like, dude, if you really want to get a deal quick, you got to find that motivation. You got to be targeted

Sharad Mehta  21:04 

100%, man, hey, then what happens? Let’s say you have a buyer. Let’s say I’m your buyer, right? You bring a deal to me from, you know, a wholesaler in the market. Right? Let’s say you and I both are in the Utah market, you bring a deal to me. And I am on that wholesalers buyers list, like how do you deal with that? I’m sure you know that happened that I’ve already seen an email. I gave a glance to that deal passed on it, but you’re bringing it ideal? No. So

Nathan Payne 21:33 

Just like with the real estate agent, if you just bring that listing without talking to agent or knowing if it’s a better opportunity than what they see, you don’t provide any value. I don’t send like an email blast or anything from a wholesaler if it’s what they sent the deal out as or if I didn’t talk to the wholesaler, that when I bring those deals, it’ll be like, Hey, you probably saw this email, right? And they’re like, Yeah, I saw it I passed on, I didn’t even look at it, because it just was bad. I said, I talked to the wholesaler. And he told me, they actually have a $40,000 wholesale fee in there, and they’re not getting any love. I know they’re willing to take five or 10, they just want to move it, I can get you this deal for instead of 200,000 I can get it to you for 160. And then obviously, hook me up with a fee. You know, I’d like to make 10. I’d like to make five, whatever, whatever makes sense. That’s that’s the same approach. You’re providing value. And that’s a deal they didn’t know existed, right? But now they do.

Sharad Mehta  22:29 

Yeah. So you’re just basically negotiating on my behalf, in this case, buyers behalf, you’ve already negotiated say, Hey, I know this deal came to you at 200,000. Don’t worry about it. The guy would actually take 161 65 Give me another 510 1000. And you can get it for like 171 75. That

Nathan Payne 22:47 

Exactly. That’s how it goes. Now, let’s say that he’s talking to the wholesaler already, and they’re negotiating back and forth. And again, I’m out. I’m out already, that I can’t go in there. What value do I provide? So it’s really like the mindset of what value do you provide? How are you benefiting them in with the deal?

Sharad Mehta  23:05 

That sounds good? Well, let’s just go through a practical example. Let’s say we go to a new market, or you can pick any market, wherever, okay, let’s say I’m a newbie, I go to new market and want to get started. I don’t have too much money to invest. What are some of the steps I should take? So

Nathan Payne 23:19 

This is something I haven’t talked about? Listen, we do a lot is we actually like when we see a deal that makes sense if we don’t have a buyer that is specifically in that area. And that’s why it’s not technically reverse wholesaling, where we already have the relationship. Sometimes we’ll look at a deal, like, let’s do a real scenario. I’m on an email list from new Western, right, new Western, and I they see a deal. I’m like, Oh, that’s a good one. I think I could move it if I just called some people that buy in that that area. So what we do is we it’s the neighbourhood flipper technique, you’d basically just go to that specific area, and you start calling people who have agents or flippers who have flipped houses in the area. And we just say, Hey, I have a property I’m working on wondering if you’re you’re still buying. It’s right by a flip that you just did. See you did really well on it. Are you interested in anymore? Oh, yeah, I’m looking at what do you got? So then I would send that information, say, Hey, this is from another wholesaler. But is this something you’d be interested in? And I tell him, I would up the price, or I would call the wholesaler that had it and see if they’re negotiable and do the same thing before. And that way, like, I don’t have that relationship, but I’m building it because I’m providing value to that guy who’s probably not on that list. Now if he’s like, Oh, I already saw this one from new Western, then you’d have to make sure you got it lower. But mostly, I’d say 90% time we do this. They don’t know where that deal came from. They didn’t look they’re not a part of the platforms. They’re just a flipper in that area. That’s what I think is the fastest way to do a deal. You can build relationships, this is great. But if you can just go specifically to call the buyers that are right, buy a house that is for sale, and just ask them if they want it. That’s very that’s how we’re able to do a deal and able to do deals within hours you just call and you’re like, Hey, you want this one? And then they’re like, Yeah, anything

Sharad Mehta  25:02 

You think it’s easier to get the fee from the buyer or the seller? Like you wholesaler? You mean like, yeah, like in this case, let’s say I’m a buyer, you connect me, you know, you bring me a deal that was already from a wholesaler, would you come to me for a fee? Is it easier to get that money from me or the seller, or you get a little bit from both sides? You

Nathan Payne 25:23 

Know what, like, we usually just get it from the buyer. And it’s easy that way. We just say, like, a lot of the times when we do this, we just say to the buyer like, Hey, this is what the wholesaler is asking. And for us bringing this deal, we just want 5k Is that cool? And then the buyers like sure, yeah, like it makes sense. And this is this is gets a little deeper into like how to get paid. But that like new Western, they won’t assign me a deal to reassign to someone, they’re not going to assign me because they they don’t want to sign a wholesaler like their contract. So I just tell that buyer, hey, the way I get paid, is I connect you with new Western, you sign all the paperwork and me and you are going to sign an invoice and I’ll send that to the title company does the deal. And they’re just going to when the deal closes, they’re going to wire me the money. And the guy’s like, Yeah, that’s fine. And then we do an invoice. So it’s like getting a it’s getting around the assignment. It’s getting, for me, it’s just being transparent about the whole situation and just being like, Hey, we’re just gonna pay me a title, like title is gonna pay me.

Sharad Mehta  26:17 

I think one good thing I see with that is if I’m paying you, you know, then I know, okay, this is the best, right? I’m paying for the deal. But if there’s like, hey, my prices already baked in, then I may question I don’t know how much you negotiate it, you know, am I paying you? Do you know what I mean? Like, it would just creep a little bit of document in mind. But it’s different for different people. Buyers,

Nathan Payne 26:37 

Buyers love when they know what you’re making. You can say, hey, I don’t care what you make. But if you find out that a wholesaler made like $150,000 You’re gonna get hurt for some reason? Oh, yeah. I

Sharad Mehta  26:50 

Mean, of course, like, if you made 150, even though it’s a great deal, you know, you made 150 It’s a great deal. And I make only 50 I’m like, dude, like I do. It’s just like, you have this bias. I did all the work. I hired the contractors. You know, I went through six months of this, you know, rehabbing listing and selling the property and you just make 150 I mean, I’m not saying I’m not, you know, dissing on anyone, you know, it takes a lot of work, but it just just how human brains

Nathan Payne 27:17 

That’s just how we are no matter what, no matter what. So when I tell the buyer, hey, look, I don’t know what they’re making. I just know this is a deal. And I just need 5k 3k 10k whatever makes sense. They’re usually like, Yep, let’s go. And how many more can you bring? Because they feel good about the process? Yeah, I

Sharad Mehta  27:35 

Think that’s, that’s fair. That’s a fair way. Like, if I know, okay, you’re being fair with how much you’re asking on that deal. You know, and then I’m looking at, okay, you know, he’s making about three 510 1000. I’m gonna make about 4050 on this flip. I think that’s fair. You know, at that point, I would say that’s fair, but profound. Are you making 150? And I’m making that just that doesn’t sound right to be? Well, a

Nathan Payne 27:58 

Lot of the time, flippers get wrecked, right? They’ll they’ll, they’ll think they’re gonna make 5060 They’ll be underwater, or maybe we make five or six because something happened. So yeah, no, I could change this. Yeah, market changes. So for us, like, we don’t know, again, what that wholesaler is making but at least they liked the relationship, because we’re transparent about it. Now, the thing that I’m telling everyone to do, it’s so flexible, right? You can do anything you want. That’s what I like about it. Like, even if wholesaling, comes with regulations on says, like, doesn’t really matter, the buyer is just paying us directly. It doesn’t, right, you know, he can write a check for anything. Yeah,

Sharad Mehta  28:33 

So the easiest way, if, let’s say, if I go into new market to find out the deal, says, of course, look at MLS deals, start negotiating on some original deals, and then get on all the wholesalers buyers list. And then you’re just like, going through those in detail, and then find good 1015 buyers in the area that are actually doing deals. And then you can go to local Ria and other you should another great way on the call that I that you were on, is the title company. So if you know companies, yeah, talk a little bit about that. Yeah, tell companies

Nathan Payne 29:05 

Are great because they know who’s actually doing deals, because they’re seeing the closings and all that, like when you go to Facebook or some of these other platforms, you don’t know if those are wholesalers, you don’t know if they’re like who you’re talking to really or if they have any experience, but the title company cuts through the BS and it lets you know immediately,

Sharad Mehta  29:23 

Right? Yeah, no one is yeah, like you. They’re gonna tell you, Hey, these are the 10 people that are consistently buying deals, and then they may connect you with that wholesaler or with that buyer and you just go from there. There you go. That’s been fantastic information, man. We’re gonna move on to the next section of the podcast ask you a couple of fun questions. You seem like a super fun guy. What do you do for fun?

Nathan Payne  29:43 

Seemed like a fun guy. I do jujitsu. Brazilian jujitsu. Yeah. How

Sharad Mehta  29:49 

Long have you been doing that for?

Nathan Payne 29:50 

I’ve been doing it for about a little over two years now. I grew up wrestling. I did wrestling and Greco Roman freestyle folk style. So I’ve had grappling background I have like some of the awards. I used to suck at wrestling. I’m trying to point anyway, I used to suck at wrestling I first started, but those are like my most improved awards. Because I that’s what I pride myself. And I’m usually bad at everything when I start, but I improve over time. So I wrestled, then I was working out at like the gym, and I was getting bored. I’m like, Man, I’m not really enjoying this. So I just walked into a gym. And I was like, Hey, I’m here to work out. I think this would be good for me, because I’m actually going to work hard, because my life is on you know, I’m getting choked. I gotta really work. So that’s why I got into it just because I thought it’d be a good workout. And it’s been fun. Nice.

Sharad Mehta  30:37 

Yeah, I mean, if you’re doing for two years, yeah, I just started F 45. And absolutely love it. Yeah. Tell me tell me what’s f 45. It’s sort of like my old version of CrossFit. I’ve never done CrossFit. But it’s literally like, just do it from my house. 90 seconds from my house. It’s called functional, fortify, we just go there for 45 minutes in and out. And then they have cardio days. They have strength days. I mean, it just I love the fact they have everything you need. You don’t have to think about it. Show up. That’s it. Yeah. That

Nathan Payne 31:07 

Was that was my struggle with just a traditional gym is like, there’s a bunch of weights. And I’m like, I don’t Yeah,

Sharad Mehta  31:12 

Exactly. This is to think about, okay, you know, how many sets of these should I do? How many laps should I do? Like, I know, just go somewhere and they tell you exactly what you need to do. I love it. That’s good guy. Yeah. And then you hope that they know what they’re doing. You know, hey, what are some of the books you have read that have had the biggest impact? One could be it could be personal business, or one of each.

Nathan Payne 31:32 

I’m glad you asked that. Because that’s actually one of my other hobbies. So I just got an app called Bookly. On okay, it’s my wife, like, I like books, but she’s like, I don’t want all these books in our house. Right? Like, we tried to stay like pretty minimalistic, right, and I have a bunch of stuff. So I was like, Okay, well, I’m gonna get an app that can like keep track of my library, like, of all the books that I’m reading. And it’s really cool, because it tells you like your reading speed tells you how long how many pages you have left, like it really tracks and helps me know, like, Okay, I’m 51% done with this book almost done halfway through. But there’s, there’s two type of books I like to read, obviously, like fiction, and, you know, self help. I’m a spiritual guy. I like to read like, like the Bible, you know, scriptures. But when it comes down to like business, since we’re talking about business, I really liked the slight edge. If you’ve ever heard of that book, yeah. Yeah. Great. So it really just talks about how small incremental improvements is the key to success, you know, you’re not going to do a quantum leap of like, I’m making, like $100 a day to like a billion tomorrow. It’s just not how it works. You have to progress. So just by being 1%, better, tractions a really good one. I really like that when it comes to fiction. I like Theodore dosti eskie. If you guys if you’ve anyone’s ever heard of Theodore Dostoevsky, he’s a he’s a great author from Russia in the 1800s, who scouted amazing books, so I’ve been reading pretty much all of his I gotta check those off. Yeah, he’s, he’s one of the greatest of all time. So I love books.

Sharad Mehta  33:02 

All right, final question. If you could spend a day with anyone dead or alive, who would you want to spend the day with? And why

Nathan Payne 33:12 

Jesus Christ I would go for Jesus Christ again. I’m religious. Why? Because I think he’s he’s the perfect you know, being he’s our Lord and Saviour so I want to hang out with him and learn as much as I could from them. So that’s my

Sharad Mehta  33:25 

Third person who’s given us the announcer Yeah. I made that if someone wants to connect with you learn more about you know what you do you also coach newbie investors Correct? Yeah, if somebody wants to connect with you,

Nathan Payne 33:39 

Yeah, new new investors and investors that are experienced but they want to continue like to have better consistency on their deal flow because I think the strategy I have I’m experienced but I didn’t really know about this until I really like honed in and like do I’m losing out on deals that I shouldn’t be I should just ask people what they pay I don’t always have to get something under contract so what I teach is not just you know, new investors it’s just the strategy and pulling as much as you can out of the leads that you have. But if you want to get a hold of me two places to do it are the best I have a Facebook group called painless flipping

Sharad Mehta  34:14 

To Facebook I will put a link in the show notes here anyway. And

Nathan Payne 34:17 

Painless flipping.com is another I do a masterclass every week we

Sharad Mehta  34:22 

Change what will be will be a y and e flip Exactly yeah

Nathan Payne 34:26 

Nathan pain try any painless flipping just play on words. But yeah, Facebook group or the website painless flipping, you go to either those will be able to connect. Yeah. And if you like what I said, I got a YouTube channel that I lay out all my training, we just give it away for free. So go ahead and check it out.

Sharad Mehta  34:42 

Yeah, really great content on your YouTube ID. Thank you. Cool. Awesome, Nathan. This has been fantastic man. Really, really appreciate you coming on and sharing your wealth of information.

Nathan Payne  34:51 

Always a pleasure, man. I love hanging out with you.

Sharad Mehta  34:53 

Thank you. Thank you